Acustic Feedback

Viggen
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:25 am
Product: R3
S/N: 75
Location: SWEDEN

Acustic Feedback

Post by Viggen »

Hi everyone!

I used to work as an instructor on a JAS-39 Gripen simulator. The Gripen fighter has a much smaller centre mounted stick with the pivot sitting almost inside your grip, which makes the pilot fly alot with the wrist (it's very nice). The stick is force sensing but with a couple of centimetres displacement at the top. To further enhance the pilots awareness of remaining performance (basically, how much more is left to pull on the stick before you are at full aft position and the FBW-system is giving you maximum available performance) there is a sound that starts when pulling the stick roughly 80% backwards, and then another similar but faster sound when pulling almost maximum. This is NOT connected to amount of Gs or AoA, it is only a feedback telling you how much more you can pull on the stick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3giMFtbZbg
In this video at time 02:00 you can hear the sound that starts at roughly 80% back pressure on the stick. It sounds like "dooot dooot dooot dooot...", if the pilot would have pulled even more it would have sounded more like "dot dot dot dot dot...." :)

I would very much like to have that feature in the FSSB. It could be implemented in the FSSB software or run in the background on the computer as a separate program. This way you would always now how much you are pulling and how much is left and also not risk to brake the force sensing module by pulling to hard. I imagine that could be a possible risk if mounted on a desk or in a cockpit and getting a bit over excited ;)

I would be happy to assist further if you would decide to implement this.

Best regards,
Alex
Dragon
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:03 pm
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Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Dragon »

Hi Viggen.

Great have you in the family ;)

Great suggestion also. Will be included in the next firmware release, for the MJF firmware series. I hope before Xmas

I will reply you about your others questions in the Bar ;-)

Welcome aboard
Manuel
Viggen
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:25 am
Product: R3
S/N: 75
Location: SWEDEN

Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Viggen »

Hi again, so this is how I suggest the Aural Deflection Feedback should be done:

The 1st warning:
Sinus tone at 395Hz
Duration 233ms (0,233 seconds)
Pause 233ms

Repeat...

The 2nd warning (only one warning at a time...):
Sinus tone at 395Hz
Duration 133ms (0,133seconds)
Pause 133ms

Repeat...

I think it would be very nice if you put in an option for the user to set values where the 1st and 2nd warning tone should activate.
But if it's to complicated I suggest the following trigger values:

1st warning at 75% back deflection (~57200?).
2nd warnig at 100% back deflection. (65535)

I have attached an example I have made, but don't use it as it is of poor sound quality.

Regards,
Viggen
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Dragon
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Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Dragon »

Hi Viggen :D I love this figther.

DONE, MJF_GRIPEN ready for departure, tomorrow in your desktop ready for test, enjoy it

Best Regards
Manuel
RogueSqdn
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:09 am
Product: R3L-ULTRA
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Location: Advance, NC

Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by RogueSqdn »

I would like this feature also... When using the R3 in X-Wing or TIE Fighter, it's hard to know if I'm getting full deflection, and I end up wearing my arm out.
Jared
raptor
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Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by raptor »

One of our Greek members, Sakis "Monster", the creator of F4Awacs, TerrainEditor, OSC etc, and developer on EMF theater, has created years ago a similar small program that reads directly from Falcon's shared memory the G loads in real time and produces an sound that pitch ups frequency as the G's are increasing. It made it for fun and to allow some basic training on formations flying where precise G's must be followed, so the pilot can also have an aural warning indication of the G's he is pulling, or tries to keep them steady. The application was never released publicly, perhaps you want to request this on BMS forum and ask for a newer version that will work with BMS.
Viggen
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:25 am
Product: R3
S/N: 75
Location: SWEDEN

Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Viggen »

Hi Raptor!

Thats a great thing, however I've left the glorious landskape of Korea and nowadays only fly DCS :) But the acustic feature that Dragon programed works very well! And when the firmware is finished, perhaps the user will be able to set the trigger values manually and can then use the feedback to always pull equal amaount of backpressure in vertical maneouvers for aerobatics etc. Personally I think the deflection of the stick is more important than Gz, since the latter will vary through for example a looping, with the changing speed.

Best regards,
Viggen
Dragon
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Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Dragon »

Good morning.

Here you have the alpha firmware for the GRIPEN in this version the sound are actived with the 80% of maximun force and 100%, take notice that in this version, the sound is linked with real maximum force that is 13lbs.

You can activated or desactivate the sounds with the Trim left plus paddle in a similar way to additional DX buttons set.

http://www.realsimulator.com/MJF_GRIPEN_FW_1_01_0.rar

Test the firmware and I will wait your replies to follow with the develop.

Enjoy it and good flight.
Dragon.
Viggen
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:25 am
Product: R3
S/N: 75
Location: SWEDEN

Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Viggen »

Hi!

I have been using the Gripen firmware exclusively since I got it a month ago, and it works exactly as intended! Very nice feature indeed.

But I still think a better option would be to incorporate the feature in the RS HID Device Tool and have the sound come out of the computer instead of the stick base. Especially when my girlfriend has gone to bed and I all of the sudden am restricted to 4 Gz to not wake her up ;) It would be nice to have the sound in the headset instead.

This way I guess it would be easier to link the acustik feedback to a percentage of software deflection and not the 13lbs as a reference.

Merry Christmas!
Viggen
Dragon
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Re: Acustic Feedback

Post by Dragon »

Finished the SSF firmware, next are NASA and Gripen
Keep in contact for testing ;)
Dragon
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