Reduce sensitivity around zero input

[Mick]

Hi

I am new to the R3 and really only fly Formation Aerobatics for fun in DCS, and no combat, I love the precision R3 gives for this, especially the absence of the unatural 'spring induced' centering other sticks have!

However I do find it extremely difficult to have zero input in the neutral zone while just holding the stick.

It's not too bad when forces are set high, 11 12 or 13lb but even then just holding steady creates unwanted inputs and I like to keep forces fairly low, so that there is quick response and fast roll rate for manouvres, (and I don't really want to be pulling loops against 13lbs)

The current solution to this is to either use curves or a deadzone (in DCS axis tune) to flatten out the centre responses.
I really don't like using a curve as it creates steeper responses either side, linear response is naturally even, and for me I feel crossing even a small deadzone would remove the 100% precision this stick has throughtout it's entire range.

So my suggestion for firmware solution is this.... I have read that on some new sidesticks developed for use in commercial aviation by BAE they have programmed 'breakout forces' required to move the sidestick from its null position.
These breakout forces are so the pilot has to pull, say, half a pound or so before it creates meaningful responses, to prevent inadvertent inputs and provide an obvious centering feel.

If possible, perhaps 'adjustable breakout forces' might be more useful so as to set sensitivity around the null zone according to preference....?

I feel this might be the solution for precision flying by both wingmen and lead airplanes in formation areobatics.

I know this may be a request for only a minority of pilots but maybe others might find this useful perhaps?

Mick

[Dragon]

HI Mike.

I love this suggestion, and if you like, we can give it a chance, what about if nwxt week, we work together and do some test, to see if this feature work as you wish?

Please if you agree, we will be in contact by email, and we will publish the test result here, and ofcourse if all is OK, will be included in next firmare.

I would love have a combact figther test plot also for this testing, just as maybe is nice for acrobatic but not for combat, and will be necesary see the convenience of include this feature in all the firmwares or produce a special one for acrobatic, as I would like from long time.

Thanks a lot in name of all users and wait you PM to take contact by email.
Dragon

[ogami musashi]

Hello,
I absolutely second the break out forces request. I too find that just resting your palm one the stick makes it move. You then need to center it but actually the stick is so precise that pushing the trigger button makes it move.

Usually break out forces are between 0.5kg and 1kg. It seems 0.5kg is the most commonly accepted but actually it could be a setting?

[Dragon]

Hi Mike.

At this time the break force is included in the AER firmware,

What about include the BFA also in the MJF firmware, could be interesting??

Thanks
Dragon

[ogami musashi]

+1!

[WALLENTIN_BERGGREN]

+1 on the break out force for the mjf, but the source I have for sidestick forcesensing controller development seems to be:

During early dev of the sidestick controller for the F16 it seems they set a"..... breakoutforce of no more then 1lb and no less"

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a085085.pdf

I asked the dev of the flightmodel in Bms and he says there is no deadzone nor a breakoutforce in modern versions of the F16, but they are using forcesettings way above what I use.

I have to be stupid but isnt a breakoutforce in pounds the exact same thing in practice as a deadzone effecting offcenter at a specific force depending on forcesetting if you have them matched.

Even the 12degrees clockwise rotation of the y and X is a good consideration.
http://www.aerotronicsllc.com/f16ssc.htm

[Dragon]

About stick rotation, this can be necesary for cockpit use, but in desktop use, you can rotate the whole joystick system as much as you need. in the same way, if you will use the FSSB R3 in a fix system you can rotate the fix holes at your necessities.

About dead zones, there are few ways to do a dead zone, but in our case what we do is a breakoutforce, this is: system keep point cero/cero while forces are lowers than breakforce, once the force is higher than breakforce, output signal go out from point cero/cero and when you apply the standar maxium force ( no matter what is the breakforce value) output signal achive the maximun value as if no breakforce would be applied.

One of the ways to calculate a dead zone is also like breakoutforce, but there are other ways to calculate the dead zone, not as realistic as a breakforce.

Finally, in the cockpit situation the force you need apply to the stick is as great as you do not need a breakforce, at least in our cockpit we do not need. but in the same way, I can not be sure, about if the fligh laws in the stick/FM in real life are always the same, and if for sure they do not apply some type of help to the pilot.

Any case, simulation life, is as hard and dificult compare to real life, where do you have a lot of feeling available, as G forces, that we need some help to compensate it.