Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

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ogami musashi
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Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by ogami musashi »

Hello,
It seems the Fssb R3 has a lot of potential development so here is one idea that i call the "virtual active inceptor" that i think would be interesting to implement (if possible).

The concept
The idea is based on the active inceptor system installed on the F-35 lightning II. The stick of the plane has three working modes: Active, Passive and Jammed. In the passive mode, the stick is very much like the Fssb R3. The force exterted on the stick is sensed and passed to the input command system that will map a g, pitch rate, AOA or whatever command for a given sensed force. In Active mode however the behavior is different. The pilot exerts a force on the stick and a program will actively move (through electrical motors) the stick to a position according to a force vs displacement function. The input command system receives not a force input put a stick position input. The great thing is that function is varying with conditions. Thus it is possible to have a constant stick position vs input command function but the force needed to go to that position will vary depending on flight conditions.
The following links show you how it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=govXiJja2aE
https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 4245,d.bGs

Why it is relevant to the fssb R3?

The ffsb R3 is not active but passive, i.e, there's no mechanical feedback from the flight control laws to the stick. However if we look at the complete stick to simulation input chain we can see that virtually, the Fssb R3 is an active stick. Indeed, the simer exerts a force on the stick and that force is translated into an X or Y axis position which is exactly like a displacement except that this displacement is virtual.
The idea would thus to have a programmable (either by realsim or the simmer via an interface) force vs position function that would change depending on flight parameters like speed, AOA, altitude or even landing gear up or down etc..
As it is possible to export flight parameters from the main simulators we use (DCS, BMS, BOS etc..), those parameters would be fed into the fssb R3 hardware and sensitivity function altered.
see the simplified example here.
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=2 ... hoto%2cjpg

Why it would be interesting for our flight simulations?

I think it could improve the experience in the following cases:
  • In general this would improve the cues on speed vs aircraft response that we don't have because we do not have inertial forces effects and most of us play through limited FOV screens. Over control and PIO are very frequent in simulation flights
  • For planes that do not have FWB systems and/or heavy servo commands, that would help simulated the actual physical feedback (i.e: higher aerodynamics forces at speed, lighter at high AOA or high Altitude)
  • For FBW planes this would allow to simulate an improved flight control system. Currently, the most advanced FBW plane simulated (in a realistic manner) is the F-16, and the F-16 doesn't have flight parameter variable gains, only cruise and landing gear gains. planes like F-22 and F-35 do have variable gains depending on speed and altitude. This would be funny simulating that
Together with asymmetrical displacement and force gradients (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=87), break out forces (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=84) and acoustic feedback (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=51) that would really make the Fssb R3 the ultimate stick!
Tell me what do you think of this idea?

if it is something doable, i'd be happy to help with testing it.
ogami musashi
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:55 am
Product: R3
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by ogami musashi »

Hello,

Seeing no answer to my post, i ask myself if i wasn't clear enough or if my idea seems not doable and/or not usefull.

anyone?
Dragon
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by Dragon »

Sorry about :roll: I was thinking about the other post (AER and SMM) and I do not see your suggestion.
Just now I am reading it, and after study it, I will try to reply in the best way ;)

Cheers.
Dragon
Dragon
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by Dragon »

We have been thinking long about this, and will be a great and long job, We would love the opinion, of other users about this issue, and collect more opinions.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion and have a great weekend.
Dragon
ogami musashi
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by ogami musashi »

I understand that it would take a lot of time :)
I've seen a topic on DCS forum some time ago of a FSSB user that said you considered firmware that work like FBW system taking information from the simulator variables (such as speed, altitude etc..) so it must be interesting to at least some fssb owners :)
Anyway thank you!
Dragon
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by Dragon »

Hi Ogami

Absolutely, I feel will be a great job and great and successfull firmware, but in the same way, need be a easy system, in my experience, I remember our first system for the simulation family, 12 years a go, the CCDB, was a fully programmable system, where for example you could do this suggestion, the CCDK the `proffesional version is in use now a days in our professional range cockpits, so I can let you know that you can do, near to absolutelly everything with it. But in the other hand the system need that the owner learn how to programm it, how configure, in other words, needs time and a great amount of effort by the owner, and the experience with the CCDB teach us, a few things, one of them is that users want parts to flight the plane and do not have time to learn or programm etc.

So in my opinion idea to get a feedback from the sim is great but need be implemented in a easy way, instead a full programmable way, or will be not used for the owners, just for this I hope collect more opinions and ideas before start a long time develop.

Thanks to you.
Kind Regards
Dragon
GORDON_KLOß
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by GORDON_KLOß »

Hello Dragon,

you could give the FSSB R3 users some documentation to the Firmware and how it's made.
I think realtime backfeeding a value comming from a flight sim into the stick won't be an easy task anyway
but if someone with time and passion would try to implement this It would be awsome!

Is there a way to give the Owners access to the Software?
Dragon
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by Dragon »

Absolutely, as I have say before, all the help is welcome. If some owner, want deal with this issue would be perfect, and I will be glad to work with him and include in the firmware.

Thanks
Dragon
GORDON_KLOß
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by GORDON_KLOß »

Could you publish the source code of the firmware?
Is it in C or is it in Assembler ?
Dragon
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Re: Variable senstivity with flight parameters feedback

Post by Dragon »

Sorry Gordon, look like I dont was clear, I do not will give you the source, I have explain several times, why, But in the other hand, if do you have the necesary skill to prepare the reading routine to get the feedback parameters from the simulator software, please let me know, because I will be glad to include it, in the new firmware develop. and give the credits to you.
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